posted 21-08-2001 02:16 AM GMT        

"It would be thinner than a supermodel"

No doubt. I figure 16 pages, actually - cover, editorial, 2-3 reviews, letters (by Lloyd!), tips, previews, wacky bit, reader challenge...competitions? Diary Of A Game? etc. It would fill up 16 pages nicely. With everyone's help, of course :)

"Retro or modern games?"

I'm more inclined to go with modern games, simply because there's really no reason to re-review classic titles again (and again). Also, if Zzap! 64 were still around, it would naturally cover the new games around now. Then again, Zzap! 64 covered old games by way of budget re-releases etc...

"Get the old Zzap! 64 crew back"

My God, what a FANTASTIC idea. I have to admit that I didn't even THINK about that when it was on the drawing board :) Well done!

Gordon? Would you be interested? Care to ask Kati on our behalf? Yossarian, how about you? A "reuinion" issue would be absolutely wonderful. I'll see if I can dig up some other Zzap! 64-illuminati that might be interested / capable of getting together for one last hurrah...I urge anyone who has contact with them to do the same! :)

I figure...16 pages, colour, as pdf files that can be printed out at home or I can print up a pile here at work or even get them professionally done...

C'mon everyone, let's get together on this and make it happen!

posted 21-08-2001 10:44 AM GMT            

quote:

---

I'll see if I can dig up some other Zzap! 64-illuminati

---

I hope you mean alumni...

:-)

Nice idea tho'...

posted 21-08-2001 06:11 PM GMT            

I've thought about this quite a lot, ever since Dimitris Kiminas at Gamebase 64 suggested something similar to me in an email a few months ago (an all-new issue 107 was his idea). In principle it seems like a good thing, and I'd be keen to take part in it; but the BIG problem is, I think I'm the only ex-Zzaper who is. Pretty much everyone else has moved on, and I’m the only sad case left. It's hard enough getting the others to even talk about those days now.

Whatever. These are some of the ideas I had re: a new Zzap! issue, a couple of which I’ve put in my own site anyway. I’m sure there are plenty more others could come up with:

1. It should be short. 32 pages max? 50? I don’t know. It would depend on how keen people were to contribute.
2. It should be a one-off mag, available both in an interactive online edition (i.e. with hyperlinks), and as you suggest -- a great idea, btw -- as a pdf download.
3. On the other hand, it doesn’t have to be online at all. This would cut out any hosting problems, and a neat pdf download could be a cool thing to have. Maybe that’s a better idea (see how confused I am).
4. The issue might contain: a cover, contents, editorial, reviews, rrap, history of zzap!, maybe a few interviews with famous 64 personalities, a discussion of the emulation scene, reviews of C64 sites on the web, stuff about the SID remixes, and so on – basically combining the old with the new.
5. The reviews could be divided into two different sections, the first covering those games unreviewed since the demise of Zzap! and CF (picking say, ten of the best ones from the last few years); the second could include the Top 10 C64 classics, as agreed by the people on this board. You might even want to have a Crap Games Round-up, where you can slag off the games you hate.
6. I’d suggest that, in the absence of former staff, people here should write the reviews. I’d be willing to tidy them up, provide guidelines, create reviewers’ heads based on photographs, if anyone thought it necessary. The same goes for articles anyone might want to write.

I can see a few problems, the biggest of which as I’ve said is that pretty much all the other ex-Zzapers (in my opinion) would be unwilling to get involved. Here are some more.

1. Getting the whole thing organised, and having the enthusiasm to complete it. This isn’t so bad if you get a lot of people involved, but it’s still a hurdle. How many people would really want to do this? How many people would bother reading it? 50? 100? 1000? I’d guess somewhere between the middle and last numbers is most accurate. So we’d be doing it effectively for ourselves.
2. If there was an online version, where would it be hosted? Here seems the most likely option, but we’d have to ask Iain.
3. Who would design it? My own web/general design skills are limited, so you’d need a big commitment from someone. In particular, I have no idea how to create angled pics, like the ones they used in Zzap! reviews; and I’m a bit crap when it comes to getting tables to expand and contract according to the browser window size. If it was just a pdf version, something like Quark could handle it easily.
4. Who would do the cover? Any artists out there?
5. What would you put in the Rrap?

As I said, I’m interested in getting involved, and if anyone has the energy to organise the whole thing, I’d be happy to contribute. The bad news is, my involvement wouldn’t be until the end of November, when hopefully I will have finished this d***ed f***ing *s***bag of a novel.

Still, it’s a good idea, and well worth thinking about. Above all, it should be a fun thing a group of people would want to do, not something that will quickly become a burden to anyone involved.

posted 22-08-2001 01:32 PM GMT            

I think that would be the maximum. The later issues were about 50 pages, but that included ads and stuff.

> as a pdf download.

As we are talking about an issue of Zzap!64, it should be a PDF, *not* a web-based version. The latter is pointless in this case IMO...

> 4. The issue might contain:

Web sites is a good one. An article could be C64 audio CDs, which I would be happy to write.

> a cover

Maybe a "new" Oli cover could be made up from scans of parts of old ones?

> editorial

Well, seeing as you're buying into this, Gordon, maybe you should be the ed! :)

> reviews

Some of the games from the last few years would be good, but only if being objective, ie: like they used to be!

> rrap

No idea here, but maybe a webmail account could be set up for letters, which could be announced on the main C64 web sites, and someone could be Lloyd?

> a discussion of the emulation scene

And reviews of emulators? I wrote a Mac-based one for Kenz's mag last year, which could be updated.

> include the Top 10 C64 classics

This'd be good as a chart, rather than reviews IMO. There are enough sites out there covering reviews of old stuff, including Lemon.

> I’d suggest that, in the absence of former staff

... press-gang the buggers! :)

I'd be surprised if at least one more person wouldn't get involved. Was the B&B really that bad? :)

> Who would design it?

Maybe base the design on Zzap!64 circa #30 -- that's a dead simple layout that could be done in Quark or InDesign. *If* there was no real expectation, or a long deadline, I might be able to do this, so long as all stock (edited text, images and so forth) was supplied to me.

As for web design, I don't think there should be a web version.

My 2p.

posted 22-08-2001 02:01 PM GMT            

> In principle it seems like a good thing,
> and I'd be keen to take part in it;

WHOO! The GH Seal Of Approval. And thank you for your pledge of help, I think it lends a real air of legitimacy to the project.

> but the BIG problem is, I think I'm the
> only ex-Zzaper who is. Pretty much
> everyone else has moved on, and I’m the
> only sad case left. It's hard enough
> getting the others to even talk about
> those days now.

Yah, I can definitely see a lot of ex-staffers "outgrowing" that period of their careers...and I guess you're more aware of their feelings toward the magazine than us plebs. Do you think it would be worth asking, though?

> 1. It should be short. 32 pages max? 50? I
> don’t know. It would depend on how keen
> people were to contribute.

I agree. I think 50 would be a stretch but then again, I imagine it as a melt of everyone's favourite section so the pages could fill up quite rapidly. After all, everyone ha da favourite section that would have to make a return, even though most sections came and went as time went by. Let's pencil in 32 pages for now...

> 3. On the other hand, it doesn’t have to
> be online at all. This would cut out any
> hosting problems, and a neat pdf download
> could be a cool thing to have. Maybe
> that’s a better idea (see how confused I
> am).

Part of the appeal of the magazine was that it was a MAGAZINE - ie: you picked it up with your hands, put it in your bag to read on the bus, showed off to friends at school / work / jail / whatever. Therefore I'm not too fussed on doing it online (I have the hosting space...but...) and frankly, funky layout with InDesign is heaps easier than HTML :)

Hell. Let's go the whole hog and print up a small batch of them to give to this board's regulars etc :)

> 4. The issue might contain: a cover,
> contents, editorial, reviews, rrap,
> history of zzap!, maybe a few interviews
> with famous 64 personalities, a discussion
> of the emulation scene, reviews of C64
> sites on the web, stuff about the SID
> remixes, and so on – basically combining
> the old with the new.

I think this is the best way to reconcile the "cover the modern stuff" (ie: me :) crowd with the "keep it real, keep it retro" crowd.

For the cover...well obviously it would be neat to have a Oli Frey image...unless we can find him I guess the next best thing would be to use a rare image of his not found in the pages of Zzap already...?

History Of Zzap...geez Yossarian where are you? :)

Also, how about coverage of the demo scene? Some drop dead fantastic C64 demos were developed for Assembly '01 a few weeks back and it would keep in tune with the likes of the old Compunet coverage.

I think the other feature ideas are ace...did I say that 32 pages would be tough to stretch? Looks like I'm wrong already :)

> 5. The reviews could be divided into two
> different sections, the first covering
> those games unreviewed since the demise of
> Zzap! and CF (picking say, ten of the best
> ones from the last few years); the second
> could include the Top 10 C64 classics, as
> agreed by the people on this board. You
> might even want to have a Crap Games Round-
> up, where you can slag off the games you
> hate.

Again, excellent stuff. I'm excited, aren't you? :) Let's just hope Frankie Goes To Hollywood doesn't win again...all of these features would easily fill a 2 page spread...probably 4 or even 6 to give it room (especially with XL-size screenshots).

Total 64 has a good run down of newly developed games, grouped by year. Good place to start.

> 6. I’d suggest that, in the absence of
> former staff, people here should write the
> reviews. I’d be willing to tidy them up,
> provide guidelines, create reviewers’
> heads based on photographs, if anyone
> thought it necessary. The same goes for
> articles anyone might want to write.

I hearby propose GH for Zzap! 64 #200 Editor In Chief. Do I even need to take a vote? :)

I think having people here do reviews could potentially be better than some ex-staff members, who were doing it just as the job. We're all passionate about the mag here. :)

Personal aside - it would be a career goal to write for Zzap! 64 under real editorial guidelines. :)

> 1. Getting the whole thing organised, and
> having the enthusiasm to complete it.

I'm willing to see it through even if it means doing the whole thing myself :) So I'll appoint myself as the organiser thingy guy.

> How many people would really want to do
> this? How many people would bother reading
> it? 50? 100? 1000? I’d guess somewhere
> between the middle and last numbers is
> most accurate. So we’d be doing it
> effectively for ourselves.

Shrug...this whole SITE is effectively for ourselves so I'm comfortable with that concept :) Any more than 50 readers and I say it's a wild success...

> 5. What would you put in the Rrap?

I guess stuff from here would be the best bet...we could open up a new topic where people just ask questions or put in Rrap-like comments that lloyd answers...nice way to emulate writing into the mag and buying the issue a few months later, looking for your name to appear :)

> The bad news is, my involvement wouldn’t
> be until the end of November, when
> hopefully I will have finished this d***ed
> f***ing *s***bag of a novel.

Hehehe, good luck :) As I said, I'm MORE than happy to organise it all. I figure a Jan / Fen release is a good way to put the project on a relaxed schedule for everyone...

The whole point is that everyone has fun and we all get a new issue of Zzap! 64 out of it. Everyone, start adding your comments / suggestions!

posted 22-08-2001 08:50 PM GMT            

What about another techie bit in the middle with all the outlandish extras that have come to the 64 scene since ZZaps death, C64 hard drives, 486`s used a 64 servers and accelerated 64`s. Thinking of the techie bit Gary Liddon might be a possibility as he seemed keen on the retro side of things at the Back In Time event?

Other possible additions could be a review of 64 events such as Back In Time, Scene happenings etc.

I agree Gordo should be acting editor if he wants the position again and I wonder if anybody could get hold of Oli for some unused artwork we could "borrow" with his permission, the idea of having a specially drawn cover with Rockford and Thingie bouncing around a gold 64 glinting on a sundrenched Marsian landscape would be too much,the headline could be "Immortal 64"
bbrr brings a shiver down the spine!

On another hardware note we could vote on the most sought after/best/robust 64 hardware as we all have had 15 odd years to destroy most of it, plus "funniest 64 death throws". Just an idea.

posted 22-08-2001 10:34 PM GMT            

Robust C64s? How about the first one I had quite easily surviving having a vase of water accidently poured over it? Whilst it was switched on. That's impressive heh.

posted 22-08-2001 10:54 PM GMT            

Nice to see you're considering the 'issue 107' proposal! I'll leave the plug in my links page until you succumb. :)

As for the contents, after almost 7 years
since the last issue there'll be plenty of
stuff to include... It doesn't have to be an one-off episode, meaning, we could make an initial, say, 16-page release, then add pages as we go until we eventually reach a decent page-count... We can even put Ads in it, for example asking the Newcomer guys to come with a full page Ad for their game, or compining various banners from the C64 banner exchange etc. I'd like to contribute too, and I'll also like to host a copy in www.gamebase.com (I suppose anybody wanting to host a copy of the mag should be able to do so)

posted 23-08-2001 01:08 AM GMT            

1. It should be 32 pages long.

2. It will be available as a pdf download only.

3. The cover could be hashed from old covers if we can’t find anything better. Does anyone know The Terminal Man really well? Is there anything suitable there?

4. It will contain:

a) reviews of recent games (or ones Zzap!/CF didn’t cover), objective and critical where necessary. I think it would be best if we got as many people to review stuff as possible, so the burden isn’t too great on one person, and everyone feels involved. As you say, Total64 seems a good place to start for anyone unfamiliar with these games.

b) a top 10 of classic games (I still fancy something like 100-word summaries of these with a couple of screens – that would fit nicely on a page); or Mayhem's suggestion of classic software from 82-2000.

c) articles on 1. C64 retro web sites; 2. C64 audio CDs and the current SID scene; 3. A summary of the emu scene and a review of emulators; 4. The current demo scene; 5. A techie section about recent 64 hardware. 6. A.N. Other -- the 'events' scene, funniest C64 deaths, etc.

d) an editorial, which could sum up Zzap!’s history. Personally, I think Iain would be best qualified for this – I think if I did it, it would have less of an impact, because everyone would wonder what happened to all the others eds. You could also fit a contents section on this page.

e) a Rrap section, if we can work out what form it would take. Maybe a Q&A about Zzap! history/interesting Zzap! info, which we could all contribute to.

f) anything else we can think of in the meantime which might fill the space, or which people here really want included.

5. Gazunta will organise the whole thing; Craig will design it according to the classic issue #30 mode if the deadlines are OK; and I’ll edit all the text, give people style guidelines if they want them, and contribute something on the writing side. Personally, I fancy a review...

6. Mayhem, Mort and Dimitris also want to contribute. I bet that nice Ant guy who hangs around Lemon's message board would be keen, too -- anyone want to post a message on that board? We could probably get a few interested.

6. We aim for a Jan/Feb finish.

>I can definitely see a lot of ex-staffers "outgrowing" that period of their careers... Do you think it would be worth asking, though?<

It’s always worth asking, but as I said, I wouldn’t expect a great response. Tho maybe, as Mort suggests, Gary Liddon might want to do something. That would be cool...

G

PS. Oh, and the reviews *won’t* include Amiga games ;o)

PPS. Gazunta, I don't envy you working out how much space all of this is going to take. Page counts were always a bummer. Email me if you want any suggestions.

PPPS. What about Tips on these recent games? Has anybody got any? Are there any maps? Or is this well covered enough already?

posted 23-08-2001 06:44 AM GMT            

The editorial could contain something like "it had to happen: after overwhelming demand, Commodore Force changes it's name back to ZZAP!64 again."

"ZZAP!64 incorporating Commodore Force" (!) One can spot the irony of things!

I don't like the idea zzap 200--where have the other 93 issues since 106 gone?

As for the cover, plenty of covers used in CRASH which were not seen by C64 users. One can be manipulated to suit our needs, a practise actually used in Commodore Force, for example in the Driller-cover issue...

posted 23-08-2001 09:56 AM GMT            

There might be something of use. Perhaps, if one of the games is good enough (ie: gets a sizzler, or whatever) then we could use TM as the 'main character' and use backgrounds from other covers. I could probably do an effective comp...

> a) reviews of recent games (or ones
> Zzap!/CF didn’t cover), objective and
> critical where necessary.

I think this is pretty important actually. Loads of reviews online are like 'wow, a c64 game, 99.9999%', even if it is crap. That was _never_ the Zzap way.

> I think it would be best if we got as many
> people to review stuff as possible, so the
> burden isn’t too great on one person, and
> everyone feels involved.

Either that, or have a 'review team' of five or six people (like Zzap did) and then have 'contributors' (who are not the reviewers)doing other columns. That sort of consistency would probably work really well.

> b) a top 10 of classic games (I still
> fancy something like 100-word summaries of
> these with a couple of screens – that
> would fit nicely on a page);

It would be interesting to see what criterea these are judged by! I'd imagine all the Apex stuff would be in there, even though it's a bit iffy (especially Creatures... yuk). :)

> 2. C64 audio CDs

I currently run a fanzine that is mostly reviews-based, so I could handle this section. I have all of the BIT CDs, along with Reyn's one.

> d) an editorial, which could sum up
> Zzap!’s history. Personally, I think Iain
> would be best qualified for this – I think
> if I did it, it would have less of an
> impact, because everyone would wonder what
> happened to all the others eds.

I disagree. If you did this, it would have more of an impact. Of course people will wonder about the other eds. We could just say that there was a big fight to the death about who would edit the new issue, and you won -- that would also explain the lack of other Zzappers! :)

Also, we should have a Scorelord page -- this could be with stuff taken from your online page, with a URL to say that this will be updated online -- might drive traffic to you!

> a Rrap section, if we can work out what
> form it would take.

I still think a genuine letters page. If this is advertised in advance, then we could get enough input. Maybe one could be a topic-based one, like the early 20s issues (I remember, for instance, a good one on piracy).

> anything else we can think of in the
> meantime which might fill the space, or
> which people here really want included.

Rockford! :)

> Craig will design it according to the
> classic issue #30 mode if the deadlines
> are OK;

Anyone know what the fonts were (or similar)? I'll be on a Mac, btw, for anyone sending stuff...

> Gary Liddon might want to do something.

Maybe ask the others who've written for your site to contribute something?

> Gazunta, I don't envy you working out
> how much space all of this is going to
> take.

Best to work out page/word counts prior to 'commissioning' articles. Base them on an old Zzap, as that will be the visual style, wonky screenshots and all!

> What about Tips on these recent games?

Probably a good idea. Maybe Waz has something on his site?

> What should it be called? Ish 107

Well, it *is* the next issue!

> "ZZAP!64 ISSUE 107 JANUARY 2002"

Yup, I like that.

> The editorial could contain something
> like "it had to happen: after overwhelming
> demand, Commodore Force changes it's name
> back to ZZAP!64 again."

Heh. That's good, too.

posted 23-08-2001 10:29 AM GMT            

A new ZZAP! would be cool and would to help out anyway I can, indeed I could help out with the emulator/retro scene side of things (with my involvement with such sites as Gamestyle.co.uk, Emucamp, Kinox and Keep it retro and would get the word around pretty quickly and ) plus I love reviewing stuff :)

Why not for the cover use that Scorelord one Gordon has on his site (you know, the one someone sent you)

We must have a scorelord high scoring heroes page!

why not include a download of some new game demos to act as sort of a "covertape" replacement??

It would be funny if Oli Frey got involved and did some new drawings of the guys here for the reviews :) that would be cool!!

funny as I think soon, there will be a retro-megazine on the shelfs on your local newsagent as I belive there is a market for it, shame it wont be ZZAP!retro :(

Lee

posted 23-08-2001 12:33 PM GMT            

Dear Lloyd,

Can you please print this letter in your next Issue of Zzap and whilst your at it, you can slap one of those "Letter of the Month" monikers on it because I'd like to recieve some software and a T-Shirt to show off to those non-believing mates of mine. There's been a severe problem with deliveries of Zzap to Australia of late. I've been rocking up to my local Newsagent for quite a while hoping to see the next Ish. In fact, its been about 7 years at last count. You really ought to try and improve the magazines distribution to the remote regions. Anyway, I digress, I have to say that the mag has gone downhill a bit of late and am hoping that the appearance of my letter in your next Ish (Well, you can hardly refuse to print it now, can you!) will help brighten it all up a tad. No, No, no need to thank me, just wrap that "Letter of the month" moniker like I deserve and that'll be enough. I think a great improvement to your mag would be to bring back Gordo as editor. In fact I'm so confident you'll follow my advice that the editorial is going to be the first thing I'm going to read in the next Ish (well, directly after checking that you printed this Letter of the Month). By the way, I'm having a spot of bother with my trusty old 64, mainly, I can't find the damned thing. Are there any suggestions from your techie crew that may help me out here (Oy!, nuffing rude OK!). Well, gotta go, since I read the last Ish I've acquired a damned job, wife, 3 kids and a mortgage so I'm being kept on my toes and have had to keep this brief. Now, you better make that smarmy remark at the bottom of this Letter damned good because you've had eons to think about it!

posted 23-08-2001 07:15 PM GMT            

I'll think about it... ;o)

G

posted 23-08-2001 09:57 PM GMT            

(First of all, the letter above should be a letter of the month!)

1. In order to make a credible effort, an ex-editor is a must to be the editor! Hear that Gordo? You'll have to write a Zzap! editorial again after so many years! :)
It doesn't have to be big, and it'll have to be exactly that: A ZZAP! EDITORIAL! No need for histories, etc. in that. Should mention that during the great time frame between last issue, ZZap!'s readers' mean age has grown an average 10 years (also talking about you traitors who stopped bying zzap! when you bought your Amiga in 1991), it was decided to redesign the magazine back to the most popular format of it's early days (or something along the same lines). Anything one could put in a normal editorial should be there (ie. "Sadly the rise in the price of paper caused our cover price to rise to 30 pounds--or it would if we were using paper. We don't, so Zzap! is now free" :)

2. The history is better suited for a 'Rockford's round up' or a 'Lloyd's round up' column! I could do that!

3. If I remember correctly, the ZZAP!BACK column was descontinued after Gordon was removed from the magazine, so we'll have to continue that. I think the last issue ZZAP!-backed was issue 25. If so, we'll continue with the sizzlers of issue 26. One of the two opinion-givers has, naturally to be YOU, Gordi! :)

4. A nice COMPUNET page :) only a little expanded to cover current developments!

5. A Megatape in glorious TAP format! In
fact, the text on issue 106's 'Forthcoming Attractions' only mentioned for next zzap that it's megatape would contain one of the zzap! team's most favorite games ever! We must be true to that! (Judging by Gordo's preferences, we have to put Chuckie Egg on it ;-)

posted 24-08-2001 12:59 AM GMT            

Couple of ways round this:

1. Have half a dozen people writing the features, another half dozen as the reviewing team. That means 12 people can get involved.

2. Keep the 6 for the features, but open up the reviews to everyone. If you have 10 reviews, that means up to 30 people could contribute, one writing the text and adding a comment, the other two just supplying a comment. That gives 36 people the opportunity to contribute (and makes sure everyone really plays the game they're reviewing, but doesn't place too much of a burden on anyone).

I slightly prefer the second option because it will make a lot of people feel involved, but don't really mind if people (like Craig, and everyone else who thinks it's a good idea) prefer the reviewing team idea.

I guess it all depends on precisely how many people do want to get involved...

btw, <Dimitris>, I don't know why they dropped the Zzapback. I thought it was one of my better ideas :o(

posted 24-08-2001 06:02 AM GMT            

I've taken a day to collect my thoughts on it all...sit down this will be a long one :)

Issue #:

You know, i was steadfastly determined that it should be #200 until I saw the letter from Bazza to Lloyd :) Now I'm firmly in the #107 camp. Loses the 'mega-issue' appeal but it also makes it seem more official (i'm big on that...the more like a real mag this is, the better)

Contributors:

OK so far we have myself, Gordon (I agree that he should definitely be the editor - as I said it lends a real ligitimacy to the project and come on, who else has the qualifications to be editor?!), Mayhem (just curious, what experience writing in the games industry were you alluding to?), Mort, Andy1, Dmitris, PeeknPoke, CraigG...Biggest Jim? Where the heck is Iain? Who else?

So that brings us to about 8 contributors confirmed so far, which I'm sure will grow as news of the project becomes more widespread. Sign up now!

With that number of people in mind I think the idea of a "review team" and a "features team" would work best...but also it would mix around a lot (say, the best games features would be contributed to by everyone).

Having at least 2 (at best 3) reviewers cover each game (with, as Gordon said, 1 doing the main text and comment and the others doing a comment) is the best solution. We'll narrow down exactly WHAT is being reviewed next, I think.

So, let's break it down into easily bitable chunks:

Cover: 1 page. As everyone discussed, the next best thing to having an Oli Frey cover is to mix and match other Oli Frey covers. Craig, you would probably the best person to handle this. On a similar note - no Zzap! 64 is complete without Rockford, Thingie, etc on the borders - the quickest way to do this would be copy the old images and put new speech tags next to them. Gordon, who was in charge of the gags / comments in Ye Olden Days? I assume Oli.

Inside Front Cover: 1 page. ?

Editorial / Contents: 1 page. Gordon?

Review: Modern Game #1: 2 pages. Review team. By "Modern" I mean between CF 106 and 107. Let's put something real kick ass (um...arse) in here. BIG screenshots. :)

Review: Modern Game #2: 1 page. Review team. Ditto.

Feature: Top 10 classic games. 3 pages. Everyone. 100 words per game + screenshot. I suggest we put it to a vote here before nailing down what games are written up. Possible name: "The Def Guide To C64 Games"?

Feature: Top 10 worst classic games games. 1 page. Everyone. 50 words a game + 5 screenshots. Possibly this could be relegated to a sidebar on the Top 10 Classic Games feature, which would be then 4 pages.

Lloyd's Mailbag: ? pages. Gordon? Space depends on how much mail gets recieved. 3 pages max I think. I heartily second the motion that Bazza's mail gets Letter Of The Month. :)

Feature: History Of Zzap! 64. 3 pages. Dmitris? "Rockford's Roundup" - good idea!

Scorelord: 1 page. Gordon? As someone mentioned, best way to do that would be lift the scores from Gordon's page.

Feature: C64 emulation scene. 1 page. PeeknPoke? The best emulators, how they work, etc. Not too techy, keeping in Zzap! 64 style.

Feature: C64 audio CDs. 1 page. CraigG? Maybe throw in some mention of Back In Time?

Review: Modern Game #3. Half page. Review team. Get ready to slag off some crap. :)

Review: Modern Game #4. Half page. Review team. Ditto. :)

Feature: C64 web sites. 1 pages. Anyone.

Tips: 2 pages. Anyone. Tips and maps for any game here, regardless of age. Might be a good idea to get maps / tips / cheats for games covered in the last 3 or 4 issues of CF, to get a sense of continuity (Lemmings, Aliens 3, Mayhem In Monsterland...)

Feature: C64 demo scene. 2 pages. Anyone. Loads of screens from Assembly etc.

Feature: C64 Expansions. 2 pages. Stuff like the hard drive and the Super64 - lots of gratuitous mentions of how it beats some consoles in performance rah rah rah.

Preview: Turrican 3. 1 page. Anyone. 'Nuff Said :)

Preview: Modern Game #6. Half page. Anyone.

Preview: Modern Game #7. Half page. Anyone.

Close: 1 page. Everyone. A special page where we can thank everyone who contributed, explained the process of it all, wacky photos etc...

Inside Back Cover: 1 page. ?

Back cover: 1 page. ?

Holy fish. That fills up 32 pages already and I'm _SURE_ I've left stuff out. :)

Anyway, that's just a mock up. PLEASE let me know if you think of better ideas, or more appropriate page counts for certain bits. Who wants to be in the review team? I know I do...nominate yourselves now and I'll put it together so everyone gets equal billing in the mag...

posted 24-08-2001 12:08 PM GMT            

Me, too. I’ve just cobbled together a provisional editorial on that basis, and I’d hate to have to retype it. ;o)

>OK so far we have myself, Gordon (I agree that he should definitely be the editor)<

Oooooooooooookay then. Send me the text when it’s ready, and ask for the review guidelines if and when... Can anybody calculate the number of words per page? It’s probably around 300-400, maybe more for features.

>We'll narrow down exactly WHAT is being reviewed next, I think. <

Sounds good. Keep the page count flexible for reviews, then. It all depends on how many and how good. Someone will have to assess this...

>no Zzap! 64 is complete without Rockford, Thingie, etc on the borders - the quickest way to do this would be copy the old images and put new speech tags next to them. Gordon, who was in charge of the gags / comments in Ye Olden Days? I assume Oli.<

Yes, then a guy called Mark Kendrick when I was in charge. I’m sure the old ones would do, but if you wanted new ones Markie could be emailed (last year) at this address, so may be worth contacting: mkendrick@paragon.co.uk

>Editorial / Contents: 1 page. Gordon?<

Yep, I’ll do that. Just need the page plan (for the contents) when it’s all finished.
You’ll need someone to do the catch-lines on the cover, too, which I’m also happy to do.

Feature: Top 10 classic games. 3 pages... Possible name: "The Def Guide To C64 Games"? <

You could do this on 2 pages if you were short of review/feature space; and even cram the worst games in a sidebar there, too.

>Lloyd's Mailbag: ? pages. Gordon? Space depends on how much mail gets received. 3 pages max I think.<

I’m happy to answer these... <cough> I mean, I’ll contact Lloyd... Again, it could be two pages if you wanted to fit other features in. I don’t need more than a double-page spread to be abusive. If we advertise on Lemon’s board, I’m sure someone will respond to a request for Rrap letters.

>Scorelord: 1 page. Gordon?<

Yep, I’ll supply the text and scores when needed. Might have to rescan the Scorelord graphic, tho, and I’ll write a new intro for the mag.

>Close: 1 page. Everyone. A special page where we can thank everyone who contributed, explained the process of it all, wacky photos etc... <

I had thought of putting these details in the mast-head, but this is probably a better idea. Again, it all depends on how many people contribute. It’s easy with a dozen, but might be more troublesome with 36 contributors. Might be nice to have people’s emails/web addresses in there too, so they can receive some hearty abuse from even bigger die-hard Zzap! fans.

Also, re: this, people can write their own captions to go with the pics, or I can invent some rubbish about each of them. It’s up to you guys...

AND... I don’t know what ideas you had for the back/inside back cover, but this might fit well on one of those pages

>Who wants to be in the review team? I know I do<

I’ll have one. And I’d prefer it to be a crap one, then I can use that vomit graphic for my reviewer head. BUT if there’s a problem of too many people wanting to do too little stuff, I’ll happily back out of a review.

OK, that seems to put me down for the following:

Cover lines
Contents and editorial
Rrap
Scorelord
(1 review?)
(Contributors page?)
Editing the text

G

Btw, should we start a new thread? This page is taking ages to load... In fact, how about starting a couple of new ones to clear things up a bit:

New Zzap! Project: who wants to review?
New Zzap! Project: your feature ideas

posted 24-08-2001 12:47 PM GMT            

Drop me an email when you're ready to start...

Yossarian

posted 24-08-2001 01:10 PM GMT            

Or .d64, so not to drive people insane! Maybe offer both, like Zzap did near the end.

> Attractions' only mentioned for next
> zzap that it's megatape would contain
> one of the zzap! team's most favorite
> games ever!

Yossarian reckoned it would be Elite. We can bend this to whatever is top of our list. How about 'on the megatape -- the best 10 c64 games ever!'

[teams]
> I slightly prefer the second option
> because it will make a lot of people feel
> involved, but don't really mind if people
> (like Craig, and everyone else who thinks
> it's a good idea) prefer the reviewing
> team idea.

The reason I like the idea of a reviewing team is because it provides a Zzap!-like consistency, unlike, say, Commodore Format, that just had a whole bunch of people each doing reviews on their own. You could maybe have six or eight people on reviews... Oh, and the black and white heads are a total must (with great, ok and 'argh' faces!)

I guess it's a case of striking a balance between making people feeling excited and involved and ending up with a great piece to show.

I guess it all depends on precisely how many people do want to get involved...

> btw, <Dimitris>, I don't know why they
> dropped the Zzapback.

I always liked it.

> Cover: 1 page.

I'll deal with this, but I will probably need some high-quality scans, as I only have a few Zzap!64s in the house, the earliest of which is #44. Maybe if there's a gold medal or sizzler, the cover can be based around that game. I think the cover will be done quite late into this.

> no Zzap! 64 is complete without Rockford,
> Thingie, etc on the borders -

I can do these too, although if someone else wants, they can do 300dpi b/w GIFs and email them to me once things are up and running, and I can add them to the pages.

> Inside Front Cover: 1 page. ?
> Inside Back Cover: 1 page. ?
> Back cover: 1 page. ?

These were always adverts, and I don't see why this should change. At the very least, I'd imagine c64audio.com and Binary Zone would be up for this! (If need be, we can go to 36 pages, with 4 adverts...) Obviously, if they (or anyone else) do want to "advertise", they would have to supply them in a usable format.

> Editorial / Contents: 1 page. Gordon?

Only as long as Ken D. Fish also gets a mention! :)

> Feature: Top 10 classic games. 3 pages.
> Everyone. 100 words per game + screenshot.
> I suggest we put it to a vote here

I suggest we do this via email to someone, so votes are not swayed by other people's decisions! Mind you, almost none of my top 10 games will make it!

> Feature: Top 10 worst classic games games.

Reckon this'd make a better boxout (as Gordon mentions). Do two pages for the main feature and just have a column for the 'worst' ten.

> Lloyd's Mailbag: I heartily second the
> motion that Bazza's mail gets Letter
> Of The Month. :)

Reckon Lloyd would have just replied with a pithy comment to someone who said they _wanted_ to be LOTM! :)

> Feature: C64 emulation scene.

If someone needs Mac info, then ask me. (This basically means MacFrodo and Power64 -- small marketshare, but P64 is bloody amazing.)

> Feature: C64 audio CDs. 1 page. CraigG?
> Maybe throw in some mention of Back
> In Time?

Most likely way of doing this would be a short history of C64audio, along with Reyn's stuff, and (obviously) Zombie Nation. Would be nice to have a review of at least Back in Time 3 if there's room.

> Tips: 2 pages. Anyone.

Get Waz involved, perhaps?

> Preview: Turrican 3. 1 page. Anyone.

Not me in this case. I thought the demo sucked.

> Close: 1 page. Everyone. A special page
> where we can thank everyone

This could also have a boxout for Zzap!64 #108, coming to a PC near you in... 10 years! :)

> [Rrap] I don’t need more than a double-
> page spread to be abusive.

Reckon that'll be enough anyway. That way you get to pick the best.

> If we advertise on Lemon’s board,

I'm a Lemon news admin, so I can post details as soon as we nail things down here (so long as someone hasn't already done so). Should all things be sent to Gazunta, who can distrubute things as needed? (ie: letters to Gordon to pass to Lloyd :), Rockford doodles to me, and so on?)

[close]
> I had thought of putting these details in
> the mast-head, but this is probably a
> better idea.

I think we need a proper mast-head anyway, otherwise it's not Zzap!64!!! However, we can also use the back page for a 'silly' outro, too.

> Might be nice to have people’s emails/web
> addresses in there too

We can do this in the mast-head. PDFs can be 'zoomed' so I can use weeny font sizes.

> Btw, should we start a new thread?

posted 24-08-2001 01:20 PM GMT            

I have just submitted a proto techie bit on transferring between 64-PC, to Gordon and Gazunta to get the ball rolling, good luck everyone. Heres to the new ZZap!

posted 24-08-2001 01:42 PM GMT            

I'm willing to start working on the Zzap!Back section now if people are cool with that. Gazunta? Gordon?

I'm a Linux user, so I could write some stuff on Unix VICE for the emulation section too, if anyone wants it.

I agree that we should set up a website/forum where potential contributors can chuck ideas around... maybe someone could start a group at Yahoo?

http://www.yahoogroups.com

That way we get a mailing list and some webspace without much fuss.

It's an idea, anyway.

posted 24-08-2001 02:20 PM GMT            

Lee

ps. Im happy doing anything in the new ZZAP! not just reviews (I think everyone wants to do them) I will be getting my head around the 1 page emulation part :) in ZZAP! style of course!

posted 24-08-2001 03:29 PM GMT            

eg C64 breadbin,easily repairable but prone to problems,C64c reliable but crap sound, 1541 compatible but unreliable,oceanic not quite as compatible but indestructable.1701 monitor absolutly built like a Brick out house( I have 2 I rescued from my secondary school 15 years ago,both fully functional still :-)), comments could be collated on the forum to get a feel of the overall longevity of the hardware and a average score could be worked out.

posted 24-08-2001 05:29 PM GMT            

1.COVER:

I'm very sorry to say guys, and I like to throw on soem weight here (no chance against Gordon, though) but I absolutely dislike the issue number (107).
I never saw commodore force as an extension from good old zzap, and the 'zzap-incorporated' ga-ga (or goo-goo) was just a load of bollocks. Zzap died with issue 90, so why not call it issue 91, let's continue the REAL zzap instead of the C-force!!???
It's just an idea though, and I don't wanna start a huge discussion or something, but I think in a certain way it makes sense.
If it doesn't to you guys, no problem..(I'll get over it ;>)

ART DEPARTMENT:

I'd like to help out with the reviews, but maybe (because of the language-problem) that won't be a good idea.
What I really like to do, something that I think I can handle, is being the art-department. I can draw (quite a bit) and I'd luuuurvve to make the zzap-cover as a tribute to Oli, I can draw a couple of 'm , and you guys pick one.
The cover-pic could be about -a reviewed game, zzap as the only surviving c64 mag, the c64 as THE surviving computer, could be a zzap-family-photo-sort of thing
Just gimme some ideas (although I have some of myself too) and I start drawing.
I can do the margin-jokes as well.
I can draw Ken D Fish jokes, ( in the late 80's I had robbed the Fish idea and turned it in to my own comic!)and I think my humour is quite zany enough !(the FAR side)

3: MINTER

Is there any possibility to get the hairy one to do a column again?
Possible subjects: his love/hate relationship with zzap over the years, or the retro 64 scene or whatever he wants to add??

4:BRAYBROOK

I know he doesn't want to get too involved in the whole c64 scene (seems that he had some bad experiences with some over-enthusiastic 'fans'. Writing something for the zzap-tribute magazine could just be 'his thing', you know:keeping the distance, and on the other hand adding something to create the ultimate zzap-atmosphere.
Can anybody contact him?

c64 GAMES TOP 10:

shouldn't this be turned into a poll BEFORE release, printing the results as the definitive zzap c64 games top 10?

Why not do the same thing with 10 favourite ads, and place those in the mag. (not too sure about this one..)

What about 'Zzap weirdest decisions'??
(or something like that, couldn't make up something really wacky..or Zzap screwzz up!)

For example: the non existance of Lloyd & Sumner. Not rating the sentinel, the Minter-trouble in the beginning etc, etc.

4: SCIENTIFIC ZZAP FACTS:

I was/am busy compiling all sorts of odd zzap-facts.
Total numbers of pages (color/bw) total number of reviews, screenshots, averages of those numbers, a month , a year etc, etc.
It may sound a bit boring, but I'm busy making some nice graphics of the facts.
I may not be finished in time with the research though, maybe I should put it in a letter and send it to the rrap.

At the moment I don't have time to brainstorm some more, but I like to say that I'm very very enthusiastic about the whole project, something which i've never thought of as possible!
I'd be really proud to help create it!
Get back to you soon amigos!
And please let me know what you think about the above...
Cheers and all that!
Rob

posted 24-08-2001 05:51 PM GMT            

Like it or not, CF incorporated Zzap!64 -- issue 10 even has a Zzap!64 issue 100 pull out. Personally, I'd say the 'real' Zzap!64 died with issue 50 (and was stone dead once Stu W left), but there you go. I think sticking with 107 is best.

> ART DEPARTMENT:

Although that's a great offer, I reckon we should stick with using something from Oliver Frey for the cover itself, otherwise it just wouldn't be Zzap!64. (Okay, so Robin Smith did one cover, but I don't count that!!) As I said, I can comp this from previous work he's done **but** we will need some illustrations for inside the mag, in the same way that Mark and Oli used to do. So maybe you could do some of those once we know what's required (over to you, Gazunta and Gordon!)

Actually, one possibility for the cover would be to 'play' with a poster he did for 2000 AD, so long as one of the game reviews is a lone warrior one. :)

> I can do the margin-jokes as well.

Go for it -- we need someone to do those. Probably best to wait until the articles are done first though.

> 3: MINTER

He might be up for it, but I doubt it. Who wants to ask? :)

> 4:BRAYBROOK

No chance.

> the non existance of Lloyd & Sumner

posted 24-08-2001 05:58 PM GMT            

1. If you compare issue 90 with CF1 you can
clearly see that it is exacltly the same
mag, with only some cosmetic changes.
2. Later issues of CF had 'incorporating ZZAP!64' in their masthead.
3. CF10 had a pull-out feature in its centre,
celebrating ZZAP!64's 100th issue.
4. CF had on the cover almost all time 'the original and best C64 mag, accept no pale immitations', based on the fact that it was a continuation of zzap -- Commodore Format appeared in the 90s, waaay before C Force
came out.
5. Lloyd came back in Commodore Force!

For these reasons, Commodore Force cannot be ingnored, and is viewed by the vast majority as a true continuation of ZZAP!64.

@ Mort

Hey, Mort! Let's call your article 'Mort's Technical Bit in the Middle' :)))

posted 24-08-2001 06:20 PM GMT            

I have mailed Jeff Minter about the project, I wait with baited breath :-)

With the articles and reviews if we have enough material we could save some for issue 108!
I agree with the crowd that Commy Force was a continuation of ZZap in character if not name,as lloyd returned etc
The idea of a weird ZZap decision feature would be interesting, we could petition Oli to finish terminal man after a 14 year rest he he

posted 25-08-2001 05:01 AM GMT            

Yeah, everyone email whatever you're doing to me and i'll dole it out to whoever needs to look at it or whatever.

I asked Minter if he'd be interested about 3 days ago, haven't got a reply yet. Here's hoping...

Also, I think newcomer has the best chance of getting a big review - what's the best way to get a hold of that?

posted 25-08-2001 05:51 PM GMT            

Keep up the work, I actually can't believe something like this is happening!

posted 14-10-2001 12:35 AM GMT            

What the hell.... I am in......

Gordon et al, would you want a contribution from myself?? I'll get one to you pronto this time!!!!

posted 16-10-2001 10:04 PM GMT            

What prize was it you were trying to get hold of???