The Def Guide to Zzap!64

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 Post subject: Issue 108 - Uh-oh ...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2003 12:56 pm 
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Suddenly I'm very, very afraid ...


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2003 12:58 pm 
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:) Well there has been some talk about articles people would like to see on the previous board (must copy over the main ideas).

Still it's just under 2 years away so there's plenty of time ;-)


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2003 1:09 pm 
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Yes, I saw the other discussions. Some good ideas, too. It got me thinking ...

But still, only 2 years ... :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2003 1:14 pm 
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I think issue 108 would definitely have to be the swansong though, maybe a nice thickish one though, would 98 pages be at all possible I wonder? 8-)


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2003 1:24 pm 
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I think 98 pages is achievable (Craig, are you reading this? :) )

I'm amazed at the amount of material that we could put in a new issue.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2003 1:25 pm 
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I think Craig might disagree though, it would take a lot of time to layout and design a 98 page magazine, but if he starts now, I'm sure he could get it done ;-)


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2003 1:27 pm 
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Yep, he worked incredibly hard on 107 and I don't think a bumper-size 108 would make it any easier for him. But sure, if we get the whip cracking now ... :wink:

I wonder what we'd do for some Oli-inspired cover art?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2003 3:08 pm 
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iain wrote:
I think Craig might disagree though, it would take a lot of time to layout and design a 98 page magazine, but if he starts now, I'm sure he could get it done ;-)


Aaaargh! 98 pages! :shock:

Part-subbing 32 took me three months! :cry:

Still, it's a nice idea, particularly if we get a *really* long deadline... But why don't we wait and see what ideas come up, and how many reviews there are, etc? I also like the idea of calling it the definitive and absolutely final ever Zzap! :)

Even so, I'll commit myself here and now to doing something on the mag -- it'd be nice if someone else could edit it, but I doubt anyone's stupid enough. In any case, I'd love to do the Scorelord, etc again -- maybe with a reader challenge this time.

g.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2003 3:31 pm 
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Yeap, reader challenge is a must, maybe linked to one of the Back in TIme Live events.

That should fill up a couple of pages anyway! :) I'm afraid you'd have to come out of the house to join us for it though! ;-o

Another thing I was thinking about, people having to pay a little for ads to appear in it this time, the money from which would go towards offsetting some of the printing costs. Does that sound like a good and fair idea?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2003 3:35 pm 
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iain wrote:
That should fill up a couple of pages anyway! :) I'm afraid you'd have to come out of the house to join us for it though! ;-o


Never! I refuse to move beyond the boundaries of my garden!

iain wrote:
Another thing I was thinking about, people having to pay a little for ads to appear in it this time, the money from which would go towards offsetting some of the printing costs. Does that sound like a good and fair idea?


Sounds fair to me -- might help more people buy it, if it's cheaper as a result of persuading advertisers to pay something. Worth a try, anyway.

g.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2003 3:55 pm 
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gordon wrote:
iain wrote:
That should fill up a couple of pages anyway! :) I'm afraid you'd have to come out of the house to join us for it though! ;-o


Never! I refuse to move beyond the boundaries of my garden!

iain wrote:
Another thing I was thinking about, people having to pay a little for ads to appear in it this time, the money from which would go towards offsetting some of the printing costs. Does that sound like a good and fair idea?


Sounds fair to me -- might help more people buy it, if it's cheaper as a result of persuading advertisers to pay something. Worth a try, anyway.

g.

btw, I think I'll start a new thread asking who wants to work on z108...

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2003 6:04 pm 
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what were you trying to do with that last message? &-)

Re the paying for ads. Considering that the full colour adverts in issue 107 probably actually cost the readers to view them since it make the mag a little bigger and prob added to printing costs!

Who was the advertising director? I hope we sacked him! ;-)


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2003 7:04 pm 
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98 pages? Yeah, right. I'm trying to restrain myself from saying something really rude right now, (a four-letter word followed by a three-letter one)...

[puts on negative, serious and grumpy hat]

I'm pretty certain very few people, including many of those who were involved in Zzap!64 107, actually realise just how many hours Gordo, Gaz and I put into the project. For me, the layout alone took about two *solid weeks* of work, and the cover another day or two. Then on top of that, I was subbing the thing, too (although Gordo did a lot of that).

Sorry, but 98 pages just isn't remotely realistic or viable, even with two years of planning. Also, what's the point in doing something with such a long deadline? Most stuff will be out of date by the time we get around to printing/releasing it. 98 pages also 100% restricts it to print, rather than PDF. We got thousands of downloads, but struggled to sell just 200 printed issues. I think we should stick to 32 pages, perhaps 50 at the very most.

Also, I'm still not convinced of the need for 108 at all. 107 was lovely - a one-off item which was well done and the last Zzap!64 ever. 108 will destroy that utterly, being the last ever issue... again. The interest will be much less than last time, and (conversely) at least some people will be clamouring for 109, 110 (and so on)...

Art-wise, the Oli pic I used for the basis of the cover was totally non-Newsfield, the likes of which we will struggle to find again. (It was a Rogue Trooper pic from 2000ad, recoloured and combined with other Oli work.)

Deadlines were also a major problem last time, which caused me no end of headaches and really messed up my schedule for a week or so (not good when you're a freelancer).

[takes off hat]

That said, if it happens, I'll do the design. That aspect of it was my baby, and I have some templates that should speed it up a little. However, I would suggest at the absolute maximum that there should be 50 pages, and even then I'd need a six-month lead time, with stuff coming in *regularly* over that time. If people end up mucking about with deadlines like last time, I'd be tempted to just say sod it and walk away.

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Who was the advertising director? I hope we sacked him!


Cheeky git.

Being realistic, there's almost no chance of getting anyone to pay for adverts in this sort of mag, despite Edge Retro and GamesTM grabbing the sort of space we're aiming at.

Right, I'm off to kick a wombat.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2003 8:10 pm 
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Em okay, 98 pages might be a little obtimistic then, the .pdf would be quite big. I guess it would cost more to print as well.

As for the ads issue. If a website is going to have a big full page ad in the magazine, surely they could pay <£50?

I'm only going to print 100 issues in total next time anyway. I still have 50+ issues here from the second run and I'm deeply out of pocket for them at the moment :( Not good when I haven't had a job for 3 months :-o Still, I guess they'll sell soon enough!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2003 10:48 pm 
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iain wrote:
As for the ads issue. If a website is going to have a big full page ad in the magazine, surely they could pay <£50?


Maybe Chris at C64Audio might, but I really can't think of anyone else who would, especially if only 100 issues are going to be printed! Maybe if it's still a PDF, with the possibility of hundreds of downloads. Mind you, this time we need a mechanism to enable such a download...

With regards to your remaining issues, why not put one on eBay? The last one went for, what, £25? Sell a half dozen of those and you should have most of your money back...

FWIW, I might grab another one, seeing as the last one got partly mashed in the mail (well, so long as you send it in a very hard cardboard envelope!) :)

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