The Def Guide to Zzap!64

The Zzap Rrap

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2003 11:45 pm 
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GOt mashed?! really? I sent most of them out (well the ones in the past year anyway) in a thick, bits of papery filled envelope.

Well obvious if the ads were just in the printed version, £50 for 200 "pageviews" is kinda expensive, but they would be in the .pdf as well.

Hosting the issues wouldn't be as much as aproblem these days, since I now have 10Gb transfer a month and back then I think it was only 2 or 3.

Hopefully within two years it should be even more.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2003 12:11 pm 
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Yeah, it got a bit mashed (not totally) with bends and stuff...

As for the ads, etc, I've been involved in marketing in the past, and we'd be relying on charity. Just don't get your hopes up, that's all. With regards to page count, it's about 1MB per page, and 30 was pushing it! I very much doubt anyone's going to host a monster 100MB PDF, with hundreds of people ripping it for download.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2003 1:29 pm 
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I didn't think the 98 page idea would fly very far (I probably should have littered a few more smilies about the place to better portray my tongue firmly planted in my cheek :) ). Though Craig, you do look pretty stylish with your 'serious and grumpy' hat on. :wink:

And you're right about how easy it is to gloss over the amount of work coming out with something like this. Heck, even those reviewer heads took a fair bit of time all up ... 9 reviewers x 3 picces each x 3.5 hours each (hey, I like erasing things, ok?) = well, my calculator isn't handy but let's just say that I'm glad my wife is very understanding!

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2003 3:13 pm 
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"Also, I'm still not convinced of the need for 108 at all. 107 was lovely - a one-off item which was well done and the last Zzap!64 ever. 108 will destroy that utterly, being the last ever issue... again. The interest will be much less than last time, and (conversely) at least some people will be clamouring for 109, 110 (and so on)... "

I disagree, I think that, if anything, anticipation will be HIGHER than last time. Everyone was amazed by the sheer professional quality of 107 and I think that 108 would get pulses racing.



"I would suggest at the absolute maximum that there should be 50 pages, and even then I'd need a six-month lead time, with stuff coming in *regularly* over that time. If people end up mucking about with deadlines like last time, I'd be tempted to just say sod it and walk away. "

I agree completely - particularly over the deadline issue. People, only commit to this project if you're prepared to adhere to the deadlines given. Graig and co. DO have lives of their own.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2003 12:05 am 
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As hard as it's going to be to try to enforce, the deadline thing should be a top priority.

Maybe there should be some sort of official statement that everyone taking part in the project needs to read beforehand. Nothing too serious, just something that lets everyone understand a few things like the fact that just because they submit something doesn't guarantee it'll be printed. Or that missed deadlines are bad.

Or is this just my years of working in corporate bureaucracy crap rubbing off?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2003 1:33 am 
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Well We probably do need a bit of red tape otherwise everything will jam up towards the end. You could do something evil like set a deadline a few weeks before the issue is put to bed and if the person misses it, get someone else to do the article instead...? Although whether the second person would be able to get it in on time is another thing!... :)

I guess article that aren't time dependanrt should be done first and have a deadline of months before the issue is due to come out.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2003 4:16 pm 
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Hooo boy, here we go.

First of all - Iain, I really like the new board. Nice work!

OK, so we're talking about #108. I had a feeling this would be inevitable...not really sure how I felt about that.

I started the #107 project because I hated my then-job and needed to save my love of gaming. My goals were to a) do something fun (and something for me to be proud of) in my otherwise chronically depressing worklife, b) make some new friends and c) somehow use it as a way to get work elsewhere. I'm very happy to say that all three of these goals were achieved.

So the question of "Why on Earth would i want to do another one" has been on my mind over the last few days since I started seeing these posts. I mean hell, it was hard work. I know Ant, Gordo and Craig would agree here. It was painful at times. Why would I volunteer not only myself but three people who have my utmost respect, to this kind of hellish nonsense again? "It's insane. It's too big to be done. It's impossible..." I said as I went to sleep last night.

Today I figured out why.

Because I love the c64 very, very much, and doing impossible, stupid things is what I do.

So I am up for it. Let the practicalities be damned. We got 36 pages out in 6 months. 50 in 2 years? Hell. We're professionals at this point. I have never missed a deadline in my life and I have the heart palpatations and emerging bald spot to prove it. Time is running out so what the hell?

Let's start by addressing the conversation already started...

Gordon said:

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Even so, I'll commit myself here and now to doing something on the mag -- it'd be nice if someone else could edit it, but I doubt anyone's stupid enough.


Consider me stupid enough. :) I'd also like to handle the logistics of it, as before.

Craig said:

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Deadlines were also a major problem last time, which caused me no end of headaches and really messed up my schedule for a week or so (not good when you're a freelancer).


Amen to that. :)

One thing I've noted a few people say is that a two year deadline gives Craig a lot of time to design the mag. Not so. Craig can only work with stuff he's given, and he can't get started without finished text, images and design notes. That stuff won't be finished until a few months before it goes to print. Ideally I would like certain sections finished well ahead of time (reviews for example...we can start on them *now*, and add more reviews as more games come out...oh, I just noticed Iain said basically the same thing) and let Craig work on them IN HIS SPARE TIME.

Ant wrote:

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As hard as it's going to be to try to enforce, the deadline thing should be a top priority.

Maybe there should be some sort of official statement that everyone taking part in the project needs to read beforehand. Nothing too serious, just something that lets everyone understand a few things like the fact that just because they submit something doesn't guarantee it'll be printed. Or that missed deadlines are bad.


Agree 100%. Something like this is needed before any of us start. We wasted a lot of time with these issues before.

Okay. Let's talk about stuff we would like to have in there.

Gordon wrote:

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In any case, I'd love to do the Scorelord, etc again -- maybe with a reader challenge this time.


And photos! :) Very cool idea.

I would like to see if we can get lots more 'veteran' Zzap!ers involved. Can we get Mel Croucher? Steve Jarratt? Kati? How about increased involvement of Paul Glancey (yes I know he's busy making video games, but damnit, so am I and you don't hear me complain) or Robin Hogg? Bob Wade? Julian Rignall of course, but he's nil-communicado these days. Oh yes, James Price would be good too. Etc etc.

I'd like to see a new game released on the coverdisk. A feature on the games that weren't would be fantastic. The return of such great features such as a developer diary, the shadow, wacky drawings, art gallery, strategy section...how about something like a round table interview where we find c64 'stars' and get them to talk about whatever they like? A 20th anniversary feature of the c64. Hardware review of the C=1.

Craig wrote:

Quote:
Also, I'm still not convinced of the need for 108 at all. 107 was lovely - a one-off item which was well done and the last Zzap!64 ever. 108 will destroy that utterly, being the last ever issue... again. The interest will be much less than last time, and (conversely) at least some people will be clamouring for 109, 110 (and so on)...


I see (and partially agree) with your point. But did us saying #107 would be a one-off stop people asking for 108? :)

But now that Craig's brought it up...let's all get this one thing very, very clear from the outset: I think we should all be doing this because we want to, not because the public demands it. We're doing it for ourselves first. Selfish? To a point, yes, but it's the only way we're going to get any satisfaction out of it.

One last thing I want to bring up before sleeping...how about an Xmas 2005 deadline? With 50 pages, it'll be a bumper-sized Xmas issue! :)

Thoughts?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2003 4:21 pm 
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One other thing I forgot.

You know, there's no real reason #108 has to be the last issue. I mean it can just be the last one we work on. There's no reason some other bunch of lunatics can do #109 in a few years time while we sit back in the nursing home... :) We had nothing to do with the latest issue of Zzap! Italia...

(oh God, there I've done it, opened the floodgates for a million kids doing their own #109...poor bastards, ye know not what ye do!)


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2003 4:50 pm 
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Re the Xmas 2005 deadline.

The reason I suggested May 2005 was because that would be the actually 20th birthday of Zzap. And bringing out a new issue would be a nice way to celebrate the day. (god, that sounds so sad!!... 8-) )


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2003 5:53 pm 
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iain wrote:
You could do something evil like set a deadline a few weeks before the issue is put to bed and if the person misses it, get someone else to do the article instead...? Although whether the second person would be able to get it in on time is another thing!... :)


People probably don't realise, but we did this in z107. I wrote at least one article because the person who was supposed to deal with it couldn't be bothered when it came down to it, which wasn't that much fun when you consider that I was designing the thing and subbing everything along with Gordo.

With regards to design, thanks Gaz for bringing up the obvious thing about design: I cannot really do _anything_ until I have final copy, screen grabs, and so on. All layouts, with very few exceptions, are dictated by the copy, the size of the comments in reviews, the number of images, etc.

As for other ex-Zzap!64 people, I'll say nothing in a public forum for now, but Gaz, check your email...

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2003 7:18 pm 
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Gazunta wrote:
Gordon said:

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Even so, I'll commit myself here and now to doing something on the mag -- it'd be nice if someone else could edit it, but I doubt anyone's stupid enough.


Consider me stupid enough. :) I'd also like to handle the logistics of it, as before.


Hi Gaz -- nice to see you again :) ...And if you really want to edit the issue, I'd be more than happy to hand on the reins. This might free me up to get involved in more of the writing this time, which I'd love to do.

I still think 32 pages of editorial is a good target to maintain quality, but if we find content enough to fill 50 (hey! we could finally get Dimitris' History of Zzap! in full! :) ), I'd be happy to contribute to that in any way I can.

g.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2003 7:44 pm 
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I think Dimitris' article would have to be a cover mounted book! ;-)


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:44 am 
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So....Zzap 108 is actually gonna happen? There have been several "new" games released since the last issue, I really don't think 50 pages of editorial would be TOO beyond reason - I for one would happily write or contribute to any C64-related article that may be in the offing. Um...It's 1.46 am and alcohol is EVIL. please excuse me....


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2003 11:28 pm 
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Still up for doing anything if it does come to fruition ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 11:42 pm 
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Hi all,

I'm available for whatever is planned. Iain, a May 2005 release is lunacy though, Star Wars Episode III is probably due then and I'll be too excited about that to concentrate on anything else!

The proposed challenge (UK/Global?) would be a good one to do.

It would be great from a nostalgia point of view to carry it on forever, but at the same time it would be good to just call 107 the final one and to move on, (saying that I would be somewhat tearful knowing we had called it a day with that issue, especially given the ongoing love for it). Hmmm, I'll come down off the fence and decide - Bumper issue 108 for the 20th anniversary and that's it!

Regards

Robin

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